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SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
SouthSide41
(---.res.bhn.net)
Date: March 29, 2015 05:11PM
Riding the L:
http://memoriesofatime.com/2013/11/26/riding-the-chicago-l-with-my-brother-tom/
http://memoriesofatime.com/2013/11/26/riding-the-chicago-l-with-my-brother-tom/
Re: SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
the_mogra
(---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: May 19, 2015 12:58PM
i remember while riding the CTA subway (or elevated) trains years ago watching the white T-shaped trip lever down by the right track rail go up or down (usually down) when the signal light changed from red to green (or vice versa). this was a reliable automated mechanical system--which by the way doesn't exist anymore--that would stop a train if it proceeded through a red light. the white T-lever if in the up position contacted a brake switch on the train undercarriage (the engineer did nothing, and he could not over-ride it). A very comforting visible safety system for passengers, observable if you're sitting in the front train seat looking out the window ahead--which nowadays you also cannot do anymore because they have the front train area walled-off so the engineer can do double duty as conductor and peer out the left window for passengers boarding.
the engineer gripped a controller handle then that contained a 'dead-mans switch' so the train would apply emergency brakes if the grip relaxed. again that does not exist anymore.
all these old-timey safety features, purposefully discontinued, would've prevented two recent train accidents I can think of--the one a year or so ago at the O'Hare terminal where the train left the tracks and started up the stairs because it failed to stop (engineer supposedly asleep), plus another accident at the Harlem/Eisenhower blue-line station where a run-away driver-less train leaving the Forest Park terminal collided with another train stopped at the Harlem station (a couple people injured).
Don't the people in charge of CTA safety have a clue what they're doing eliminating these features? If it works don't fix it.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2015 02:00PM by the_mogra.
the engineer gripped a controller handle then that contained a 'dead-mans switch' so the train would apply emergency brakes if the grip relaxed. again that does not exist anymore.
all these old-timey safety features, purposefully discontinued, would've prevented two recent train accidents I can think of--the one a year or so ago at the O'Hare terminal where the train left the tracks and started up the stairs because it failed to stop (engineer supposedly asleep), plus another accident at the Harlem/Eisenhower blue-line station where a run-away driver-less train leaving the Forest Park terminal collided with another train stopped at the Harlem station (a couple people injured).
Don't the people in charge of CTA safety have a clue what they're doing eliminating these features? If it works don't fix it.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2015 02:00PM by the_mogra.
Re: SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
Jeff_Weiner
(---.sub-70-194-77.myvzw.com)
Date: May 19, 2015 02:08PM
The deadman's switch still exists, and parts of the L that are not under Automatic Train Control still have track trips.
Re: SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
the_mogra
(---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: May 19, 2015 02:51PM
if the deadman's switch existed there wouldn't be runaway trains at all, and that's what the harlem/forest park accident was
the track trip may remain in some places but I don't see them and they used to be part-and-parcel of all red/green signal lights, easily visible everywhere
ATC would appear to be for the birds--it addresses many issues but hard-and-fast safety is NOT its top concern
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2015 04:20PM by the_mogra.
the track trip may remain in some places but I don't see them and they used to be part-and-parcel of all red/green signal lights, easily visible everywhere
ATC would appear to be for the birds--it addresses many issues but hard-and-fast safety is NOT its top concern
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2015 04:20PM by the_mogra.
Re: SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
Richard Stachowski
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: September 26, 2015 11:21AM
[b]Going north entering the subway there was a abandond tunnel going east. A friend of mine walked through it and said there were rats as big as cats down there. I could not find any facts about that tunnel but it did and could still exist. I SAW IT OUT THE WINDOW OF THE TRAIN. This was in the 50's.[size=large][/size][/b]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2015 11:23AM by Richard Stachowski.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2015 11:23AM by Richard Stachowski.
Re: SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
Jeff_Weiner
(---.sub-70-194-101.myvzw.com)
Date: September 26, 2015 02:54PM
the_mogra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if the deadman's switch existed there wouldn't be
> runaway trains at all, and that's what the
> harlem/forest park accident was
>
> the track trip may remain in some places but I
> don't see them and they used to be part-and-parcel
> of all red/green signal lights, easily visible
> everywhere
>
> ATC would appear to be for the birds--it addresses
> many issues but hard-and-fast safety is NOT its
> top concern
Simple physics: if a large item like a train is moving at a sufficient speed, even a deadman's switch isn't going to stop it from jumping the tracks and riding up the stairs.
The places where the track trip still exist are where there are wayside signals, mostly in the subways, where you can't easily see them.
-------------------------------------------------------
> if the deadman's switch existed there wouldn't be
> runaway trains at all, and that's what the
> harlem/forest park accident was
>
> the track trip may remain in some places but I
> don't see them and they used to be part-and-parcel
> of all red/green signal lights, easily visible
> everywhere
>
> ATC would appear to be for the birds--it addresses
> many issues but hard-and-fast safety is NOT its
> top concern
Simple physics: if a large item like a train is moving at a sufficient speed, even a deadman's switch isn't going to stop it from jumping the tracks and riding up the stairs.
The places where the track trip still exist are where there are wayside signals, mostly in the subways, where you can't easily see them.
Re: SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
the_mogra
(---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: September 28, 2015 11:40AM
you completely misunderstand me -
"even a deadman's switch isn't going to stop it from jumping the tracks and riding up the stairs."
a run-away train is one that has no operator, for all intents and purposes, and the one that went up the escalator @ O'Hare of course did
"even a deadman's switch isn't going to stop it from jumping the tracks and riding up the stairs."
a run-away train is one that has no operator, for all intents and purposes, and the one that went up the escalator @ O'Hare of course did
Re: SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
Jeff_Weiner
(---.sub-70-194-74.myvzw.com)
Date: September 28, 2015 01:46PM
the_mogra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you completely misunderstand me -
>
> "even a deadman's switch isn't going to stop it
> from jumping the tracks and riding up the stairs."
>
>
> a run-away train is one that has no operator, for
> all intents and purposes, and the one that went up
> the escalator @ O'Hare of course did
I will grant you that the newer T-handle controller may be easier to defeat on the deadman's switch, unlike the old Cineston, but it [u]does[/u] have a deadman's switch. If a train is moving too fast, even going full emergency stop isn't going to prevent a calamity at the end of the line. Simple physics (you can't cheat Newton, as one of my coworkers used to say).
The best fixes for this are to insure that operators have sufficient rest before starting a shift, and setting the approach speed on the ATC to a low enough level to make a runaway less likely. And as a retired engineer and card-carrying electric railfan, that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2016 05:31AM by Jeff_Weiner.
-------------------------------------------------------
> you completely misunderstand me -
>
> "even a deadman's switch isn't going to stop it
> from jumping the tracks and riding up the stairs."
>
>
> a run-away train is one that has no operator, for
> all intents and purposes, and the one that went up
> the escalator @ O'Hare of course did
I will grant you that the newer T-handle controller may be easier to defeat on the deadman's switch, unlike the old Cineston, but it [u]does[/u] have a deadman's switch. If a train is moving too fast, even going full emergency stop isn't going to prevent a calamity at the end of the line. Simple physics (you can't cheat Newton, as one of my coworkers used to say).
The best fixes for this are to insure that operators have sufficient rest before starting a shift, and setting the approach speed on the ATC to a low enough level to make a runaway less likely. And as a retired engineer and card-carrying electric railfan, that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2016 05:31AM by Jeff_Weiner.
Re: SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
Dunning1
(---.dhs.gov)
Date: September 28, 2015 02:13PM
On a kind of related topic, I just got back from a week's visit in Buffalo, NY. They have a really nice trolley/subway that runs down Main Street in Downtown Buffalo. It's really kind of a hybrid, as it runs on Main Street, on street level, from Erie Basin to about Fountain Plaza. The "Metro Rail" then goes underground as a subway, going on for several miles. Main Street is closed to vehicular traffic where the train is above ground. I rode the train back and forth several times just for the fun of it. There is also an unusual fare collection system. As long as you are above ground, the ride is free. If you are going in the subway, you are supposed to buy a farecard. I rode from the Erie Basin end to the University end and nobody checked, but when I rode back, a uniformed collector came on the train and asked to see my card. They also have a very unusual boarding system while above ground. A handicapped ramp is at every station, just going up to the first entrance on the first car. On the rest of the cars, when the car pulls up to a stop, a double step unfolds automatically from under the doors. Very neat! Wish we had something like that here.
Re: SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
the_mogra
(---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: September 28, 2015 02:20PM
unfortunately you still misunderstand, the accident @ O'Hare had nothing to do with a deadman's handle (or lack of one) and I never said as much - it's the accident @ Harlem that did
Re: SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
Jeff_Weiner
(---.sub-70-194-67.myvzw.com)
Date: January 02, 2016 05:37AM
Richard Stachowski Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [b]Going north entering the subway there was a
> abandond tunnel going east. A friend of mine
> walked through it and said there were rats as big
> as cats down there. I could not find any facts
> about that tunnel but it did and could still
> exist. I SAW IT OUT THE WINDOW OF THE TRAIN. This
> was in the 50's.[size=large][/size][/b]
Was this the tunnel you mentioned in another thread, just south of the Roosevelt station in the State Street subway?
-------------------------------------------------------
> [b]Going north entering the subway there was a
> abandond tunnel going east. A friend of mine
> walked through it and said there were rats as big
> as cats down there. I could not find any facts
> about that tunnel but it did and could still
> exist. I SAW IT OUT THE WINDOW OF THE TRAIN. This
> was in the 50's.[size=large][/size][/b]
Was this the tunnel you mentioned in another thread, just south of the Roosevelt station in the State Street subway?
Re: SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
Richard Stachowski
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 02, 2016 11:07AM
[b]yes going east toward the park.[/b]
Re: SUBWAY MEMORIES
Posted by:
Jeff_Weiner
(---.sub-70-194-97.myvzw.com)
Date: January 06, 2016 12:40AM
Anyone old enough to remember when they ran 4000's on the Ravenswood, and the trains entered downtown through the State Street Subway?
