In looking more at the original 1965 photo and also the 1988 photo I posted, I have two findings:

1) the second word on the ...acumen's sign is "wine."
2) I think the ...achman's would have been closer to where Chase is now, and not Terry's. Look at the angle of Ogden. It wouldn't intersect with Weed until farther Southwest, considering that the 1965 photo was taken South of the Brown Line. Terry's isn't close enough, and the service station is in front of that, so it would definitely be too far away.

Thoughts? I will still go and ask the owner, but it is more fun trying to solve the puzzle!

Kelley

Just to go back for a moment to the original post...

Look! Is this? Could it be?? Yondorf!? North/Halsted, looking East. 1909.

Ok, I am having heart palpitations after this find!

Close but no cigar?: There was a "Fischman's Liquors" at 555 W. North Avenue.

Regarding my Yondorf photo find above: I just found out that Yondorf Bros. Was at North and Larrabee...darn. A good pic nonetheless.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2011 02:21AM by kgamb.

Rustymuscle: maybe you are right? Could the 1965 photo be the intersection of Weed and Larrabee, not Ogden? I am really tired, so if I am totally off, everyone forgive me. This makes sense in my exhausted mind.

'night.
Kelley

kgamb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look! Is this? Could it be?? Yondorf!?
> North/Halsted, looking East. 1909.
>
>

I have a feeling this pic is earlier than 1909 because you don't get a view of the Brown line crossing North Ave just east of Halsted. The Brown Line was erected in 1907

Rusty, great job, I bet you found it. Could be that Fischman's was on the SE corner and fronted out on both North and Larrabee - if the store was L-shaped it would explain why the sign wouldn't be exactly on the corner but maybe a few doors south. Assuming the Cook Co. site is right in stating the Terry's building wasn't there 'til 1970, that might explain the change in view between the '65 photo and now.

There's a Fischman's on Milwaukee & Lawrence. Wonder if it's of the same lineage.

Interesting thing about the Yondorf photo; that's not Yondorf Hall, although YH was completed by the time that photo was taken. I read they were clothiers, so perhaps they didn't have a shop in the actual hall building.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2011 02:57AM by WayOutWardell.

Rusty nailed it...wow

555 W North is the NE corner of North and Larrabee, and Fishman's was fronted on North Avenue and the east side of Larrabee. Like Wayout said, Terry's wasn't around in 65' to obstruct the view across Larrabee, so if you were standing on Weed and Ogden looked east you would get a clear view of Fishmann's...

Great job, Rusty!

WayOutWardell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cap'n, you have a good point as far as the depth
> perception in the '65 photo...is it possible that
> '...chman's' is actually on Larrabee and the view
> is unobstructed?
>
> The Cook County Assessor's site lists 1554 N.
> Larrabee as 'Age: 41'. I don't know how accurate
> that is, though.
>
> LOC photo of the corner of North Ave & Larrabee:
> North Ave. 1906
> The Yondorf sign is not actually on Yondorf Hall.
>
> A postcard view of North Ave. - no date, can't
> tell which direction this is facing:
> North Ave. & Larrabee, n/d


Regarding the postcard ... given the tracks crossing above the street in the distance, my guess would be that the view is west down North toward where the Brown Line tracks run north-south across North Ave. by Halsted.

BTRIPP Wrote:
> Regarding the postcard ... given the tracks
> crossing above the street in the distance, my
> guess would be that the view is west down North
> toward where the Brown Line tracks run north-south
> across North Ave. by Halsted.

oh yes, Wayout's postcard is a view west down North, across Larabee...and by the old-style address (73 North avenue) it pre-dates 1909, which is when the new numbering system was in place.

captain54 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> 555 W North is the NE corner of North and
> Larrabee, and Fishman's was fronted on North
> Avenue and the east side of Larrabee. Like Wayout
> said, Terry's wasn't around in 65' to obstruct the
> view across Larrabee, so if you were standing on
> Weed and Ogden looked east you would get a clear
> view of Fishmann's...
>

Don't forget there was a gas station at North/Ogden/Larrabee...or we should say, there was a building standing there. BTW, it appears Fischman's liquors has had several locations and is probably the same one in business today.

Rustymuscle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Don't forget there was a gas station at
> North/Ogden/Larrabee...or we should say, there was
> a building standing there. BTW, it appears
> Fischman's liquors has had several locations and
> is probably the same one in business today.

Hard to say if the current structure (Terry's) would have obstructed the view, but after looking at it few more times I'm thinking that section of Fishman's was directly adjacent to the alley, may not have been an entrance, just glass window.
The "Fishman's" sign may have been wrapped all around the Larrabee side. I remember now a few liquor store establishments on the ground floor of neighborhood buildings that had similiar layouts. The days before the mall and mini-mall.

Going back to the '65 photo...the old YMCA would have been just to the right of the guys in the photo, out of the frame, correct?

Kelley - I did some more asking. My aunt, her kids and my grandmother lived at 1870 Burling, not south of Willow like I thought. They were there in 1965, when grandma died. I thought this was the apartment that I remember my aunt living in when I was a kid, but by then she had moved to a place on Belden which is probably the one I was thinking of. It looks like the Burling place is still there, but in way better shape than I'm sure it was back then. They moved to Burling from 1520 Throop, which was where my dad also lived until he went into the navy.

I've got some of my cousins looking for street/exterior photos, and hopefully they'll come up with something.

captain54 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rustymuscle Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Don't forget there was a gas station at
> > North/Ogden/Larrabee...or we should say, there
> was
> > a building standing there. BTW, it appears
> > Fischman's liquors has had several locations
> and
> > is probably the same one in business today.
>
> Hard to say if the current structure (Terry's)
> would have obstructed the view, but after looking
> at it few more times I'm thinking that section of
> Fishman's was directly adjacent to the alley, may
> not have been an entrance, just glass window.
> The "Fishman's" sign may have been wrapped all
> around the Larrabee side. I remember now a few
> liquor store establishments on the ground floor of
> neighborhood buildings that had similiar layouts.
> The days before the mall and mini-mall.

I looked at the intersection on the zoning map (which still shows weed st and ogden)
From an assumed vantage point on the NW corner of Weed and Ogden, you could see at least 3/4 of the Fishman's building before seeing the current Terry's.
That is easily enough to see the portion of the sign in the photo.

If there was a one room filling station there, you could probably see it all.


Paul K. Dickman

The postcard I posted (Yondorf) is indeed (as also pointed out by Captain54) at North/Larrabee. I looked up the cross streets in the Proceedings of the City Council on Google Books.

I really wish it was Yondorf Hall! Oh well. Next time.

Great job Rustynail!

WayoutWardell: I would love to see some old photos! Thanks for checking on the address.

P.S. Thanks to you guys for letting the "old MRS" participate in your history puzzles.

WayOutWardell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Going back to the '65 photo...the old YMCA would
> have been just to the right of the guys in the
> photo, out of the frame, correct?

I'm not sure of the exact address, WayOut, but I know that the old Y was on the west side of Larrabee between Weed and Blackhawk..actually, the west wing was directly across the street (Ogden) from the boys in the 65' photo.

Read an article from an old mag that Johnny Weismuller frequented the old Y in his youth..

from the great Cushman collection...

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/20205384@N03/5955857652/] [/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/20205384@N03/5955857652/]POSTCARD - CHICAGO - NORTH AVENUE-LARABEE YMCA - c1940[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/20205384@N03/]captain54_01[/url], on Flickr

Also, the old YMCA was called the Laschn YMCA, and was replaced by the New City Y @ 1515 N Halsted in 1979. The New City YMCA closed in 2007, was demolished and sold off to developers



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2011 07:46PM by captain54.

OK, I meant to say Rustymuscle and not Rustynail :) It's like sport peppers and a Chicago brat.. you just can't have one without the other (or, "da ader" as per the Super Fans).

You guys are great.

Still not coming up with any more photos from the 50s-70s, but I did find one on the Cushman site that looks across Ogden/North toward St. Michaels. What school would that be in the right of the frame (assuming it is a school)?

[url=http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P10245.jpg]Ogden Ave. over Halsted, viewed NE, 1958[/url]

WayOutWardell Wrote:
, but I did find one on the Cushman site
> that looks across Ogden/North toward St. Michaels.
> What school would that be in the right of the
> frame (assuming it is a school)?
>

The pic is entitled "Ogden over Halsted" (which would cross Division). Ogden/North would cross Larabee. I'm thinking it's Halsted/Division/Ogden because there was an overpass there, and this pix was probably taken from the overpass, which would explain the clear view of St Michaels, which would have been almost a mile away. If that's indeed the case, the area shown in the the pix (Little Hell) was cleared away for Cabrini Green in the early 60's,

I think that building that looks like a school was on Scott St

http://www.historicaerials.com/api/img-server.php?op=fetchHistoricPhotograph&bbox=-87.647965,41.9066723828227,-87.645069,41.9037763828227&year=1952&stamp=true

maybe someone can look at a old fire map and confirm? Looks like it was there at least til 1962.

http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=4E-06&lat=41.9052243828227&lon=-87.646517&year=1962



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2011 05:17PM by 222psm.

Nice find - it was on Scott St...it was the old Schiller School. Polks Directory has it as 700 W. Vedder, before the street name was changed, and apparently was rebuilt as the current Schiller School in '62.

In the same Cushman photo, it looks like part of the Larrabee Y is visible - the black roof just to the left of the smokestack and behind the antenna. The windows just below the roof look similar to the view on the postcard.

In any case, that is one heck of a camera Mr. Cushman had.

Wow, WayOutWardell your right, good eye! Now you got me wondering what that building with the smokestack was, a factory of some kind? Or was it part of the Y?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2011 07:00PM by 222psm.

222psm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, WayOutWardell your right, good eye! Now you
> got me wondering what that building with the
> smokestack was, a factory of some kind? Or was it
> part of the Y?


It looks like it's attached to a building near Blackhawk and Larrabee. It's visible on Historic Aerials photos from 1952 and 1962. It's hard to tell if it's in the 1938 photo, and it's gone (along with most of the block) in the '73 view. There seems to be a street with a gentle curve to it that heads south toward Clybourn...is it a street or an alley?

Yes! it's a street, looks like it was Siebens Pl in this map from 1910 it ran from Larrabee St to a small street that I can not make out that ran between N. Clybourn and W. Blackhawk

After Ogden was Extended, Ogden ran right over the unknown street, and Siebens ran between Ogden and Larrabee. A lot of streets in the area just disappeared!

<iframe width="640" height="480" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&amp;ll=41.906493,-87.645643&amp;spn=0.007665,0.013733&amp;z=16&amp;output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&amp;ll=41.906493,-87.645643&amp;spn=0.007665,0.013733&amp;z=16&amp;source=embed" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>

222psm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes! it's a street, looks like it was Siebens Pl
> in this map from 1910 it ran from Larrabee St to a
> small street that I can not make out that ran
> between N. Clybourn and W. Blackhawk
> http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6002/5965113239_c81
> a86ec28.jpg
>
> After Ogden was Extended, Ogden ran right over the
> unknown street, and Siebens ran between Ogden and
> Larrabee. A lot of streets in the area just
> disappeared!
>
> View Larger Map


On the plat map, it is called Hinsche St.

The 1928 Polk Directory has a couple of businesses that might be possibilities as far as the smokestack building: 1452 N. Larrabee, Becker Bros. Boiler Repair Co., and 1464-70 Larrabee, Sieben Co. Malt Products. Don't know if they were around in 1958.

I made a quick plot of the approximate vantage point of the Cushman photo, with help from the map our hosts have posted on the Ogden extension story:
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/29821940@N00/5967070050/]Cushman Vantage Point?[/url]
The building in the far distance on the left in that photo is at the northeast corner of Armitage, Clark and Lincoln Pk West.

It's interesting to see the change in surname ethnicity in the Polk Directory as you go from Division (mostly Italian) to North (mostly German).

Also, kinda tangent to this topic, there exists a neat relic business at Clybourn and Larrabee, the Hyman & Son cotton felt company, established 1897. I'd been by there but had no idea they were still operating - at least they were in 2010 when this blogger got a tour:

[url=http://www.foodaholicsunanimous.com/2010/09/cotton-felt.html]F. Hyman & Son Cotton Felt Co.[/url]

WayOutWardell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 1928 Polk Directory has a couple of businesses
> that might be possibilities as far as the
> smokestack building: 1452 N. Larrabee, Becker
> Bros. Boiler Repair Co., and 1464-70 Larrabee,
> Sieben Co. Malt Products. Don't know if they were
> around in 1958.

The Sieben Brewery @ 1466 Larrabee was closed in '67 and leveled in the early 70's

the upper left corner of this pic shows a smokestack very similiar to the one in the 58' color photo

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/20205384@N03/5968189725/] [/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/20205384@N03/5968189725/]Siebens Brewery - Chicago, 1466 N Larabee - 1965[/url]

Cabrini-Green buildings took the place of most of the 'disappeared' side streets.

Great find yet again, Captain!

You'd think they'd call themselves something other than 'Siebens Malt Products' to throw off the Feds during Prohibition...maybe 'Siebens Pet Store' or something.
The Polk Directory also lists a B.L. and a Theo Sieben living at 1464 and 1470 Larrabee, respectively.

Another Cushman photo, this one an example of the deteriorating housing stock in the area:
[url=http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P03121.jpg]1655 N. Dayton, 1946[/url]