General Discussion Forgotten Chicago Forum
Feel free to discuss anything related to the website here.
Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
nordsider
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 19, 2014 01:06PM
On a warm summer night, a sightseeing boat leaving the Michigan Avenue Bridge on the Chicago River to take a short tour of the city's lake shore, is a delight. Within the lock, boat passengers have to wait for the lake and river levels to equalize; since the time it was built in 1938-39; to close off the mouth of the Chicago River from the lake to control the diversion of lake water. A small price to pay for Chicago's benefit.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2014 05:20PM by nordsider.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2014 05:20PM by nordsider.
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
Mr Downtown
(---.c3-0.drb-ubr1.chi-drb.il.cable.rcn.com)
Date: January 20, 2014 12:37PM
One probably based on a false premise. We now know that the Great Lakes have cycles of rising and falling lake levels, and the fall observed in the early 20th century, which gave rise to the lawsuit forcing installation of the locks, was probably not related to the Chicago Diversion at all.
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
nordsider
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 20, 2014 07:27PM
Mr Downtown Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One probably based on a false premise. We now
> know that the Great Lakes have cycles of rising
> and falling lake levels, and the fall observed in
> the early 20th century, which gave rise to the
> lawsuit forcing installation of the locks, was
> probably not related to the Chicago Diversion at
> all.
I wonder if the other Great Lake states will demand that the lake be separated from the Mississippi River, because of the fear of Asian carp infestation, at Chicago?
-------------------------------------------------------
> One probably based on a false premise. We now
> know that the Great Lakes have cycles of rising
> and falling lake levels, and the fall observed in
> the early 20th century, which gave rise to the
> lawsuit forcing installation of the locks, was
> probably not related to the Chicago Diversion at
> all.
I wonder if the other Great Lake states will demand that the lake be separated from the Mississippi River, because of the fear of Asian carp infestation, at Chicago?
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
Brian J. Patterson
(---.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 21, 2014 07:52AM
Hello, nordsider and all.
1. Just going from memory, they already have been. The asian carp is no joke. The Army Corps of Engineers has placed an electric barrier on the Ship and San at Romeoville. The barrier SEEMS to be working so far.
2. For that matter, WE don't exactly want the asian carp in Lake Michigan, either. After all, we are barely a generation removed from the Alewife mess.
Thanks.
Brian J. Patterson.
nordsider Wrote:
>
> I wonder if the other Great Lake states will
> demand that the lake be separated from the
> Mississippi River, because of the fear of Asian
> carp infestation, at Chicago?
1. Just going from memory, they already have been. The asian carp is no joke. The Army Corps of Engineers has placed an electric barrier on the Ship and San at Romeoville. The barrier SEEMS to be working so far.
2. For that matter, WE don't exactly want the asian carp in Lake Michigan, either. After all, we are barely a generation removed from the Alewife mess.
Thanks.
Brian J. Patterson.
nordsider Wrote:
>
> I wonder if the other Great Lake states will
> demand that the lake be separated from the
> Mississippi River, because of the fear of Asian
> carp infestation, at Chicago?
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
nordsider
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 21, 2014 09:12AM
The dual purpose Sanitary and Ship canal ("San") was built in 1900, in part, I presume, because of periodic outbreaks of cholera and typhoid fever, including one in 1890. I have also read, that the water-borne disease typhoid death rate alone reached 174 per 100,000 people in 1891.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2014 10:19AM by nordsider.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2014 10:19AM by nordsider.
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
nordsider
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 23, 2014 09:18AM
Architect Daniel Hudson Burnham's proposed Harbor, 1907
http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/artwork/128382?search_no=16&index=55
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood and probably themselves will not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work."
— Daniel Hudson Burnham (1846-1912)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2014 06:35PM by nordsider.
http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/artwork/128382?search_no=16&index=55
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood and probably themselves will not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work."
— Daniel Hudson Burnham (1846-1912)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2014 06:35PM by nordsider.
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
Brian J. Patterson
(---.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 24, 2014 12:26AM
Hello again, nordsider.
1. The "San" is the part of the Illinois and Michigan Canal that could not be bypassed by dams and locks "elsewhere." When the Army Corps of Engineers established the "9 foot channel" in the 1920s and 1930s, the "Panama Canal" type locks in use today were built next to the "old and too small" locks, the canal was widened and deepened, and continued in service, becoming the "San." The rest, from Lockport to Joliet, and from Joliet to LaSalle were "officially" abandoned when the locks at Dresden Island and Marseilles opened in the 1930s.
2. The Chicago River was reversed because of the cholera epidemics. The cholera epidemics were caused by everyone's sewer pipes, house and street, running straight into the Chicago River. This wouldn't have been so much of a problem since Chicago never drew its drinking water from the Chicago River. However, Chicago, to this very day, draws its drinking water from Lake Michigan. Oddly enough, the Chicago River used to flow into Lake Michigan as well. The Water Intake was relocated further off-shore at least once, but it was decided to remove all doubt by reversing the Chicago River to avoid this unintended "recycling" of water.
3. The river was also reversed because the engineers who designed the I&M Canal over-estimated the water they would gain from other feeders. Pre-reversal, the I&M's summit was, oddly enough AT Summit. The canal flowed east to Chicago from there, and westward to LaSalle. Thus, when the canal first opened in 1848, it never had its "advertised" depth due to lack of water. This reduced freight capacity of barges, and ocasionally stopped navigation of the canal altogether. By reversing the Chicago River, the flow of the canal was changed to be all "downstream" from Chicago, thus ending the "chronic water shortage" of the I&M.
3. When "downstaters" first found out that Chicago was reversing the Chicago River to solve this problem, they were overjoyed. The I&M Canal would at last be able to reliably carry fully loaded barges. The "new" water flowed, and the downstaters cheered--until they spotted the "floaters." Thus began quite literally a fabled Illinois Tradition--Chicagoland defecating on downstate.:P
Thanks.
Brian J. Patterson.
nordsider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The dual purpose Sanitary and Ship canal ("San")
> was built in 1900, in part, I presume, because of
> periodic outbreaks of cholera and typhoid fever,
> including one in 1890. I have also read, that the
> water-borne disease typhoid death rate alone
> reached 174 per 100,000 people in 1891.
1. The "San" is the part of the Illinois and Michigan Canal that could not be bypassed by dams and locks "elsewhere." When the Army Corps of Engineers established the "9 foot channel" in the 1920s and 1930s, the "Panama Canal" type locks in use today were built next to the "old and too small" locks, the canal was widened and deepened, and continued in service, becoming the "San." The rest, from Lockport to Joliet, and from Joliet to LaSalle were "officially" abandoned when the locks at Dresden Island and Marseilles opened in the 1930s.
2. The Chicago River was reversed because of the cholera epidemics. The cholera epidemics were caused by everyone's sewer pipes, house and street, running straight into the Chicago River. This wouldn't have been so much of a problem since Chicago never drew its drinking water from the Chicago River. However, Chicago, to this very day, draws its drinking water from Lake Michigan. Oddly enough, the Chicago River used to flow into Lake Michigan as well. The Water Intake was relocated further off-shore at least once, but it was decided to remove all doubt by reversing the Chicago River to avoid this unintended "recycling" of water.
3. The river was also reversed because the engineers who designed the I&M Canal over-estimated the water they would gain from other feeders. Pre-reversal, the I&M's summit was, oddly enough AT Summit. The canal flowed east to Chicago from there, and westward to LaSalle. Thus, when the canal first opened in 1848, it never had its "advertised" depth due to lack of water. This reduced freight capacity of barges, and ocasionally stopped navigation of the canal altogether. By reversing the Chicago River, the flow of the canal was changed to be all "downstream" from Chicago, thus ending the "chronic water shortage" of the I&M.
3. When "downstaters" first found out that Chicago was reversing the Chicago River to solve this problem, they were overjoyed. The I&M Canal would at last be able to reliably carry fully loaded barges. The "new" water flowed, and the downstaters cheered--until they spotted the "floaters." Thus began quite literally a fabled Illinois Tradition--Chicagoland defecating on downstate.:P
Thanks.
Brian J. Patterson.
nordsider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The dual purpose Sanitary and Ship canal ("San")
> was built in 1900, in part, I presume, because of
> periodic outbreaks of cholera and typhoid fever,
> including one in 1890. I have also read, that the
> water-borne disease typhoid death rate alone
> reached 174 per 100,000 people in 1891.
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
nordsider
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 24, 2014 05:33AM
My recommendation for the Chicago River, the book: The Chicago River: An Illustrated History And Guide To The River And Its Waterways by David M. Solzman (copyright 1998), also see its References on pages 271-276.
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
Dunning1
(---.dhs.gov)
Date: January 24, 2014 12:07PM
I can also recommend Mr. Solzman's book. I would like to mention that for years, he has conducted tours of the Chicago inland waterway system under the sponsorship of the University of Chicago, usually in September. The tour leaves from the Chicago River, at the Wendella dock near the Wrigley Building, out into Lake Michigan, down the Chicago South Shore, and entering the Calumet River near the former USX steel works. He points out the various installations along the river, explaining their historical importance. The tour continues to a peek into Lake Calumet, then down the river to the Cal-Sag Channel, and all of the way out to Lockport, where the Cal Sag meets the Sanitary and Ship Canal. A sharp right turn back into the Sanitary and Ship Canal and back into Chicago, along the Canal and South Branch back to the Wendella dock. Again, all of the installations encountered along the way are explained. It's an excellent tour, takes all day, and well worth the time invested. I've done it twice.
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
Brian J. Patterson
(---.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 24, 2014 12:47PM
Hello, Dunning1, nordsider, and all.
1. Sounds like a great book and a great tour. Perhaps the FC Group can post when David M. Solzman is doing his next tour, or even set up a "FC Special Tour" with Mr. Solzman.
2. Is his book still "on the shelf" more often than not, or is it one that will have to be ordered online, etc?
Thanks.
Brian J. Patterson.
1. Sounds like a great book and a great tour. Perhaps the FC Group can post when David M. Solzman is doing his next tour, or even set up a "FC Special Tour" with Mr. Solzman.
2. Is his book still "on the shelf" more often than not, or is it one that will have to be ordered online, etc?
Thanks.
Brian J. Patterson.
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
Dunning1
(---.dhs.gov)
Date: January 24, 2014 01:30PM
I have seen the book on shelves at local stores recently. Mr. Solzman was kind enough to give me an autographed copy when I gave him a copy of an old novel from the turn of the century based on the building of a grain elevator on Lake Calumet!
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
Dunning1
(---.dhs.gov)
Date: January 24, 2014 01:32PM
Just found the name of the novel: Calumet K
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
rjmachon
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 24, 2014 05:02PM
The fence is a two part system that is not working very well according to the Environment News Service.
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/01/12/chicago-fish-fence-fails-to-deter-giant-asian-carp/
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/01/12/chicago-fish-fence-fails-to-deter-giant-asian-carp/
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
nordsider
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 28, 2014 10:17AM
There have also been many unwelcome sea creatures brought into the Great Lakes by ships since, I presume, the Maderia Pet was the first ship to arrive in Chicago directly from Europe; a British brigantine that docked with a cargo of china and other luxury goods, on July 14, 1857.
And,
The first vessel to take a trip from Chicago to Europe was the Dean Richmond, which sailed July 14, 1856, with a load of wheat.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2014 03:09PM by nordsider.
And,
The first vessel to take a trip from Chicago to Europe was the Dean Richmond, which sailed July 14, 1856, with a load of wheat.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2014 03:09PM by nordsider.
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
rjmachon
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 28, 2014 07:00PM
I can remember as a kid going down to Navy Pier to watch the ships unload their cargo.
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
nordsider
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 28, 2014 08:10PM
When I was a kid in the summer of 1950, my uncle took me to the Dime Pier, which is now barely visible above the lake waters, located between the Lock and Navy Pier, for a fishing expedition. My uncle sat at the pier's edge to fish, where ships' could be easily seen entering the Lock. I didn't know at the time, but I discovered recently that he had worked on a lake boat that sailed to Chicago from Manitowoc Wisconsin when he was a young man in 1930; and I now surmise, to reminisce about his sailing past.
On that day in 1950, Navy Pier appeared to be quiet and unused by shipping. And the two World War II training aircraft carriers that had been docked between the Dime Pier and Navy Pier had already left, with only a single engine pontoon equipped air craft, for tour service, using the empty space for landing and take offs
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2014 09:54AM by nordsider.
On that day in 1950, Navy Pier appeared to be quiet and unused by shipping. And the two World War II training aircraft carriers that had been docked between the Dime Pier and Navy Pier had already left, with only a single engine pontoon equipped air craft, for tour service, using the empty space for landing and take offs
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2014 09:54AM by nordsider.
Re: Chicago's Harbor Lock
Posted by:
davey7
(---.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
Date: January 30, 2014 04:20PM
Mmmm, fried carp!
All the diversions were easy to do because the Continental Divide (not the famous one, but the Gulf of Mexico vs. Atlantic [via the St. Lawrence] ) is not far from the city. The watershed for the lake is actually pretty small on the west side of the lake.
All the diversions were easy to do because the Continental Divide (not the famous one, but the Gulf of Mexico vs. Atlantic [via the St. Lawrence] ) is not far from the city. The watershed for the lake is actually pretty small on the west side of the lake.
