General Discussion Forgotten Chicago Forum
Feel free to discuss anything related to the website here.
Great site!
Posted by:
Kevin Forsyth
(---.109.70.10.ptr.us.xo.net)
Date: November 29, 2007 02:31PM
Greetings,
Your site is terrific, I especially liked the long article on Ogden Street. Whenever I'm in that area I enjoy spotting remnants of the old viaduct and street.
Regarding the shortest streets list, I'm surprised Moorman Street in the Wicker Park neighbourhood didn't make the cut. It must be a little too long. Also, I'm not sure if Mary Street counts in that list -- there may be an additional stub of this street north of the expressway. Google Maps (which is often wrong, so don't think I'm being pedantic) shows it, and the aerial photo does too -- as a crumbling stretch of pavement going nowhere.
Finally, regarding the lost street of Sherman alongside the Board of Trade... once upon a time, long before the 1972 map you used for this great list, the original BOT building at that location stood between Sherman on the west, and Pacific Avenue on the east. When the current building was built in 1930 (if not earlier), Pacific turned into an extension of La Salle. There's an old map with captions at http://tigger.uic.edu/depts/ahaa/imagebase/intranet/chiviews/page153.html.
Thanks for all the great info,
Kevin
http://kevinforsyth.net
ps. You may be interested to see my [url=http://kevinforsyth.net/film/blues.htm][i]Blues Brothers[/i] locations map[/url] which includes, among its nearly-complete list, the 23rd Street viaduct.
Your site is terrific, I especially liked the long article on Ogden Street. Whenever I'm in that area I enjoy spotting remnants of the old viaduct and street.
Regarding the shortest streets list, I'm surprised Moorman Street in the Wicker Park neighbourhood didn't make the cut. It must be a little too long. Also, I'm not sure if Mary Street counts in that list -- there may be an additional stub of this street north of the expressway. Google Maps (which is often wrong, so don't think I'm being pedantic) shows it, and the aerial photo does too -- as a crumbling stretch of pavement going nowhere.
Finally, regarding the lost street of Sherman alongside the Board of Trade... once upon a time, long before the 1972 map you used for this great list, the original BOT building at that location stood between Sherman on the west, and Pacific Avenue on the east. When the current building was built in 1930 (if not earlier), Pacific turned into an extension of La Salle. There's an old map with captions at http://tigger.uic.edu/depts/ahaa/imagebase/intranet/chiviews/page153.html.
Thanks for all the great info,
Kevin
http://kevinforsyth.net
ps. You may be interested to see my [url=http://kevinforsyth.net/film/blues.htm][i]Blues Brothers[/i] locations map[/url] which includes, among its nearly-complete list, the 23rd Street viaduct.
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
Serhii
(---.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
Date: November 29, 2007 06:54PM
Kevin,
I'm happy to hear that the long version of the Ogden article is being read. I feared the length would be off-putting. Though, for years I wondered why the city would have the gall to actually remove a street - so I put my curiosity to rest writing that article. Its good to see that others also want to know.
About Moorman Street, you're right, at 28 address points, its a little too long. It may seem like I'm splitting hairs, but if I included all streets under 30 points, there would be something like 40 or 50 streets. When I began researching for the tiny streets page, more than a year ago, I initially listed everything under 40 points, which was completely unmanageable, so I kept trimming it down.
Also, when I began doing this page, Mary street was indeed a crumbling path to nowhere. An *unsigned* path to nowhere. I assumed that the street would get built over or become an alley. However, now that I go back and look at it, new townhomes have been constructed along Mary, similarly to adjacent Stark street. It also received proper signage, so I suppose we can say the street has been resurrected. But damn, now I have to remove it! Thanks for pointing that out.
Pacific Avenue was indeed an extension of LaSalle, predating the map I used for that page. Pacific will be noted on an upcoming street necrology page, which will list every long-gone street in the central business district, with no time constraint. Infact, we plan on doing more street necrology pages, but they must have some constraints; listing them all at once would be chaotic and overwhelming.
I haven't seen Blues Brothers in a while, but I didn't even realize that was the 23rd street viaduct in that scene. Totally slipped under my radar. Now I have to go back and watch it again. The last time I watched it, I noticed that the Schoenhofen brewery complex is used in the scene when they visit the orphanage. I always did wonder where the Holiday Inn sign was, which your list clarified. Yours is the most complete list of BB filming locations I've seen yet, how did you do it?
Serhii
I'm happy to hear that the long version of the Ogden article is being read. I feared the length would be off-putting. Though, for years I wondered why the city would have the gall to actually remove a street - so I put my curiosity to rest writing that article. Its good to see that others also want to know.
About Moorman Street, you're right, at 28 address points, its a little too long. It may seem like I'm splitting hairs, but if I included all streets under 30 points, there would be something like 40 or 50 streets. When I began researching for the tiny streets page, more than a year ago, I initially listed everything under 40 points, which was completely unmanageable, so I kept trimming it down.
Also, when I began doing this page, Mary street was indeed a crumbling path to nowhere. An *unsigned* path to nowhere. I assumed that the street would get built over or become an alley. However, now that I go back and look at it, new townhomes have been constructed along Mary, similarly to adjacent Stark street. It also received proper signage, so I suppose we can say the street has been resurrected. But damn, now I have to remove it! Thanks for pointing that out.
Pacific Avenue was indeed an extension of LaSalle, predating the map I used for that page. Pacific will be noted on an upcoming street necrology page, which will list every long-gone street in the central business district, with no time constraint. Infact, we plan on doing more street necrology pages, but they must have some constraints; listing them all at once would be chaotic and overwhelming.
I haven't seen Blues Brothers in a while, but I didn't even realize that was the 23rd street viaduct in that scene. Totally slipped under my radar. Now I have to go back and watch it again. The last time I watched it, I noticed that the Schoenhofen brewery complex is used in the scene when they visit the orphanage. I always did wonder where the Holiday Inn sign was, which your list clarified. Yours is the most complete list of BB filming locations I've seen yet, how did you do it?
Serhii
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
Kevin Forsyth
(---.109.70.10.ptr.us.xo.net)
Date: November 29, 2007 08:30PM
Serhii,
Now that I know Moorman is 28 points long, it seems gargantuan in comparison to McDermott! I guess I'll have to check that out some time, knowing I'll never make it out of first gear.
I think Mary Street deserves an honourable mention as a [b]resurrected[/b] street. I'll bet those don't happen very often. I'm reminded (tangent here, maybe totally off-subject) of a strip mall on Damen just south of North/Milwaukee that went by the name Robey Station for a few years. I was surprised that the developer knew their history well enough to know the old name of Damen, and thought enough of it to pay homage. Of course, the name didn't last.
As for the BB map, most of my primary sources are listed on that page, although since it went live I've received a few emails from locals who were able to add to and/or clarify the list. Newbart's [i]Sun-Times[/i] articles in 2005 were hugely helpful, too. Blues Brothers Central (.com) has lots of information, although it isn't compiled in one location so it took a lot of digging through the forums there and ignoring the "my cousin's golf buddy had an uncle who knew a guy who drove a truck during the shoot, and he said the location was around such-and-such" comments. That was kind of my trigger to put the map together -- too many online sources that pretended to know, but had no clue.
To confirm the locations, I've done quite a bit of scouting, like for the long comment on the State Police traffic stop ("the light was yellow, sir"). That one I figured out using screen captures, aerial shots in Google Maps, and a first-hand tour of the streets of Park Ridge.
Kevin
Now that I know Moorman is 28 points long, it seems gargantuan in comparison to McDermott! I guess I'll have to check that out some time, knowing I'll never make it out of first gear.
I think Mary Street deserves an honourable mention as a [b]resurrected[/b] street. I'll bet those don't happen very often. I'm reminded (tangent here, maybe totally off-subject) of a strip mall on Damen just south of North/Milwaukee that went by the name Robey Station for a few years. I was surprised that the developer knew their history well enough to know the old name of Damen, and thought enough of it to pay homage. Of course, the name didn't last.
As for the BB map, most of my primary sources are listed on that page, although since it went live I've received a few emails from locals who were able to add to and/or clarify the list. Newbart's [i]Sun-Times[/i] articles in 2005 were hugely helpful, too. Blues Brothers Central (.com) has lots of information, although it isn't compiled in one location so it took a lot of digging through the forums there and ignoring the "my cousin's golf buddy had an uncle who knew a guy who drove a truck during the shoot, and he said the location was around such-and-such" comments. That was kind of my trigger to put the map together -- too many online sources that pretended to know, but had no clue.
To confirm the locations, I've done quite a bit of scouting, like for the long comment on the State Police traffic stop ("the light was yellow, sir"). That one I figured out using screen captures, aerial shots in Google Maps, and a first-hand tour of the streets of Park Ridge.
Kevin
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
Serhii
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: November 29, 2007 11:24PM
Actually, there used to be a street near Moorman, called Mautene Court, which would have been one of the shortest if it still existed. I talk about it on the 31272 page, which you probably noticed.
But let me think, resurrected streets...perhaps that's something unto itself. I asked Jake, neither of us could think of any other examples. We'll keep it in mind.
Robey Station? Isn't that the strip mall where a condo tower was built in the middle of a parking lot? I think that's across from Wicker Park at Schiller and Lemoyne?
Naming a new development after the old name for a street is one thing, but have you ever noticed its insidious sister? When a building is torn down and the building erected in its place makes reference to the old name. Perverse postmodernism.
Bella Como for the Como Inn, Granada Center for the Granada Theatre, Rainbo Village for the Rainbo Theatre/Skate, Lexington whatever-the-fuck-who-cares for the Lexington Hotel. That move always pisses me off, I can think of a number of gruesome analogies...but I'll just say its in bad taste.
Anyway, thats all I've got for now.
But let me think, resurrected streets...perhaps that's something unto itself. I asked Jake, neither of us could think of any other examples. We'll keep it in mind.
Robey Station? Isn't that the strip mall where a condo tower was built in the middle of a parking lot? I think that's across from Wicker Park at Schiller and Lemoyne?
Naming a new development after the old name for a street is one thing, but have you ever noticed its insidious sister? When a building is torn down and the building erected in its place makes reference to the old name. Perverse postmodernism.
Bella Como for the Como Inn, Granada Center for the Granada Theatre, Rainbo Village for the Rainbo Theatre/Skate, Lexington whatever-the-fuck-who-cares for the Lexington Hotel. That move always pisses me off, I can think of a number of gruesome analogies...but I'll just say its in bad taste.
Anyway, thats all I've got for now.
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
Kevin Forsyth
(---.109.70.10.ptr.us.xo.net)
Date: November 30, 2007 12:23PM
re: Robey Station, you are correct sir. I think it's called something like MCM Plaza now, which sounds like a vanity name for the management company to me.
You and I seem to have some similar interests and opinions, because I completely agree with you about "perverse postmodernism" (a perfect term for it). Equally egregious to me is the cynical way developers co-opt the nature they pave over. In my hometown (not Chicago, I'm a transplant) there's an apartment complex called Deerpath. When I was a kid, it was a wooded area with -- you guessed it -- actual deer paths running through it. It's one thing to "pave paradise," it's another to call it Paradise Parking when you're done.
I'll try not to get started on the developer's favorite tool for end-running landmark status, the façadectomy.
You and I seem to have some similar interests and opinions, because I completely agree with you about "perverse postmodernism" (a perfect term for it). Equally egregious to me is the cynical way developers co-opt the nature they pave over. In my hometown (not Chicago, I'm a transplant) there's an apartment complex called Deerpath. When I was a kid, it was a wooded area with -- you guessed it -- actual deer paths running through it. It's one thing to "pave paradise," it's another to call it Paradise Parking when you're done.
I'll try not to get started on the developer's favorite tool for end-running landmark status, the façadectomy.
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
rerun81
(---.mavericktrading.net)
Date: November 30, 2007 03:17PM
Great site! It is all very interesting and I really enjoy wasting some good time at work reading all of the articles. I showed the site to one of my friends who actually lives on Crilly Court, one of the shortest streets. He said, "wait a minute! Crilly Court also extends for a little bit north of the small section that is mentioned!" Like Kevin, we also looked on Google maps (can you really trust it?) and it does show another little section of Crilly. Could this be another one? Sorry to burst the bubble if it is, I love the article though.
Also, how Damen used to be called Robey -- when and why did they change the name of the street?? I had no idea it had another name at one point. If so, are there other major streets that had different names?
Also, how Damen used to be called Robey -- when and why did they change the name of the street?? I had no idea it had another name at one point. If so, are there other major streets that had different names?
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
Kevin Forsyth
(---.109.70.10.ptr.us.xo.net)
Date: November 30, 2007 04:28PM
Robey was renamed for Father Damen, who founded St. Ignatius (of [url=http://www.forgottenchicago.com/ig.php]architecture graveyard[/url] fame). Maybe Serhii knows when.
Funny thing about Damen... down around 171st Street in Hazel Crest, the Dixie Highway follows Damen's line. At 163rd, Dixie veers west, and for a couple of blocks the remaining north-south street is Damen Avenue again. Then for several blocks it's an unpaved, grass right-of-way, with power lines (?) running along it. Then, from 155th Street northward until it dies at I-57 -- it's still Robey Avenue!
There are lots of major streets that have had name changes. For example, a bunch of the numbered avenues on the west side got renamed, such as 40th Avenue which is now Pulaski, 48th Avenue now Cicero, and 52nd Avenue now Laramie. In the town of Cicero at least, the intervening avenues retain their numbered names.
Funny thing about Damen... down around 171st Street in Hazel Crest, the Dixie Highway follows Damen's line. At 163rd, Dixie veers west, and for a couple of blocks the remaining north-south street is Damen Avenue again. Then for several blocks it's an unpaved, grass right-of-way, with power lines (?) running along it. Then, from 155th Street northward until it dies at I-57 -- it's still Robey Avenue!
There are lots of major streets that have had name changes. For example, a bunch of the numbered avenues on the west side got renamed, such as 40th Avenue which is now Pulaski, 48th Avenue now Cicero, and 52nd Avenue now Laramie. In the town of Cicero at least, the intervening avenues retain their numbered names.
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
Jacob
(---.arm-bsr1.chi-arm.il.cable.rcn.com)
Date: December 01, 2007 02:54AM
I'm not sure when Robey changed to Damen either... my guess is sometime in the 1920s.
Yes, 40th Avenue became Pulaski, but before it became Pulaski, lets not forget that it was Crawford. In fact, it still uses that name in some suburbs (Lincolnwood and Skokie come to mind).
Interestingly, Crawford became Pulaski in the 1950s, but not without a big fight against the name change. Business owners in the Crawford/Madison business district led a movement to stop the change, because of all the advertising and signage that would have to be reprinted. Back then, Crawford (now Pulaski)/Madison was probably the most prosperous outlying business district after Englewood.
You can still find businesses and buildings referring to Crawford today. A bar at Pulaski/Belmont comes to mind, as well as an apartment building north of Irving/Pulaski called "Crawford." We might do a page on this in the future. There are also a couple businesses on Damen referring to Robey, though I'm not sure if any are actually original from before the name change occured.
Yes, 40th Avenue became Pulaski, but before it became Pulaski, lets not forget that it was Crawford. In fact, it still uses that name in some suburbs (Lincolnwood and Skokie come to mind).
Interestingly, Crawford became Pulaski in the 1950s, but not without a big fight against the name change. Business owners in the Crawford/Madison business district led a movement to stop the change, because of all the advertising and signage that would have to be reprinted. Back then, Crawford (now Pulaski)/Madison was probably the most prosperous outlying business district after Englewood.
You can still find businesses and buildings referring to Crawford today. A bar at Pulaski/Belmont comes to mind, as well as an apartment building north of Irving/Pulaski called "Crawford." We might do a page on this in the future. There are also a couple businesses on Damen referring to Robey, though I'm not sure if any are actually original from before the name change occured.
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
Serhii
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: December 01, 2007 03:15AM
About Crilly: The northern stub is a named alley, and I think it was named Crilly fairly recently. Now that you mention it, I've been on it, but totally forgot about it. Either way, now I have to remove it, however, I'll make mention of both Crilly and Mary. Thanks for pointing that out. I think the Tiny Street page is the most mistake-laden thing we've done. Oh well...
There are indeed a number of major streets which have had name changes, in addition to tons of minor streets. Some other notable ones I can think of include Wells street, which was named Fifth avenue for a while, before being reverted back to Wells. The *other* Fifth Avenue on the west side was previously known as Colorado. And don't forget streets like Roosevelt and Cermak.
This could go on and on...
There are indeed a number of major streets which have had name changes, in addition to tons of minor streets. Some other notable ones I can think of include Wells street, which was named Fifth avenue for a while, before being reverted back to Wells. The *other* Fifth Avenue on the west side was previously known as Colorado. And don't forget streets like Roosevelt and Cermak.
This could go on and on...
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
SethTisue
(---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: December 03, 2007 07:02PM
My “feeling of pure joy at that moment" I found your site "is indescribable." Thanks for the amazing long Ogden article and all the rest of it.
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
Cheryl
(---.ghsl.northwestern.edu)
Date: December 11, 2007 06:54PM
Those plaques off a building at 47th and Michigan (in the St Ignatius article) probably came from the Michigan Boulevard Garden Apartments, built by Julius Rosenwald. They're mentioned here:
http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/1215.html
http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/1215.html
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
Jacob
(---.arm-bsr1.chi-arm.il.cable.rcn.com)
Date: December 11, 2007 07:30PM
I don't think they're from that development; those buildings actually still stand, in an abandoned state. They never had any frilly art deco ornament; they were built to be inexpensive and straightforward. I'm pretty sure the ornament is from a building on one of the other corners, though.
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
Serhii
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: December 11, 2007 07:54PM
I concur; there are no indications that it came off the Michigan Blvd apartments. Though, I checked the usual fire insurance maps. The only other "name" building (post 1925) was a Met Life Insurance office on the southeast corner.
The ornament wasn't necessarily from a corner building though. A mystery begging to be solved...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2007 07:55PM by Serhii.
The ornament wasn't necessarily from a corner building though. A mystery begging to be solved...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2007 07:55PM by Serhii.
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
cappy
(---.area4.spcsdns.net)
Date: December 21, 2007 03:20PM
Salutations Forgotten Chicago!
Thunderous applause to all of you!
Congratulations on a stellar beginning!
Thunderous applause to all of you!
Congratulations on a stellar beginning!
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
Megan B
(65.91.201.---)
Date: January 19, 2008 03:47PM
When I saw your Web site listed in Chicago Magazine's "171 Best Chicago Web Sites" article, I was excited to check it out; I was not disappointed. This is one of the best Web sites devoted to Chicago history I have seen, especially considering it is the result of a small team, not a large organization such as the Chicago Historical Society.
I have read almost all the articles on here already, and every single one is interesting. They are a perfect match for my love of Chicago history, maps, architecture, and photography. I've really learn a lot from your site so far.
The articles in your "Signs" section were of particular enjoyment to me. I live in Uki Village, and anytime I walk with someone by a house displaying old street numbers, I will tell them about the Chicago's street renumbering, so it's great to see an article dedicated to this subject.
A small note about "The Little House on Polk Street" article - I work just north of this "little house," and my friends and I will occasionally go to the Polk Street Pub for happy hour. It is one of the best not-too-divey dive bars around, and a perfect escape from the usual after work crowd. Next time I go, I will try to remember to inquire if anyone still lives on the upper floors.
I will highly recommend your Web site to others. Hopefully the Chicago Magazine article has helped to expand your site's reach. Keep up the great work!
I have read almost all the articles on here already, and every single one is interesting. They are a perfect match for my love of Chicago history, maps, architecture, and photography. I've really learn a lot from your site so far.
The articles in your "Signs" section were of particular enjoyment to me. I live in Uki Village, and anytime I walk with someone by a house displaying old street numbers, I will tell them about the Chicago's street renumbering, so it's great to see an article dedicated to this subject.
A small note about "The Little House on Polk Street" article - I work just north of this "little house," and my friends and I will occasionally go to the Polk Street Pub for happy hour. It is one of the best not-too-divey dive bars around, and a perfect escape from the usual after work crowd. Next time I go, I will try to remember to inquire if anyone still lives on the upper floors.
I will highly recommend your Web site to others. Hopefully the Chicago Magazine article has helped to expand your site's reach. Keep up the great work!
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
eddiej
(---.chcgilgm.covad.net)
Date: January 19, 2008 05:49PM
this is a cool site keep up the good work
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
paw
(---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: February 29, 2008 02:34AM
What is really cool about the street names is that they all exist on the border of kankakee and will counties with the numbering system in tact. 32649 S. Kedzie is the highest one I've seen.
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
mikbasile
(---.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 05, 2016 01:47AM
this is a oldie and a goodie
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
Jeff_Weiner
(---.sub-70-194-96.myvzw.com)
Date: February 05, 2016 01:03PM
Btt.
Re: Great site!
Posted by:
SWEDE
(---.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 06, 2016 01:46AM
The south side was easy to travel through with with number streets ie 48th St 55th St, however, the North side all street names and you had to know how far north each street ment IE 3000 North 5400 North. Just a thought.
