Ghost Stories


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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: 222psm (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: October 07, 2010 02:00PM

OK, I see it now. Part of the ghost house was in what is now the middle of the street, and the garage part is partly under the new house. Got it! We had a "ghost"
house in our neighborhood, it still was fully furnished, but someone had ransacked it. The calenders in the place had the date of July 1971, and it was 1982! We called it a ghost house because it was abandoned, but we never saw any thing paranormal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2010 02:08PM by 222psm.

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: Bruce (---.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 08, 2010 12:51AM

It is incredible to hear of a house that remains vacant for so long. someone will always break in, and generally these houses always seem to get set on fire. Most villages these days would not stand for vacant property sitting around that long, especially if the lawn is not mowed. Someone must have owned that place. Who knows, there are all kinds of strange circumstances in the world.

Bruce

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: 222psm (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: October 08, 2010 02:31PM

The strange thing is someone mowed the front yard, but not the rear. Never got set on fire, but in early 85 a family moved in. I looked in google street view and today it looks like it was completely gutted and remodeled they did a very nice job.

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: 222psm (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: October 11, 2010 12:50PM

Bruce, I have a question. The MSD police, are they like railroad police that patrol
their property? And have full police powers, and why were they involved in the fake resurrection Mary "case"? Was he trespassing on their property? Just wondering as I
had never heard of them, I tried Google but I didn't find much, thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2010 12:55PM by 222psm.

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: bwalsh (---.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 11, 2010 02:46PM

222,
For one thing, the district is now known as the Metropolitan Water Reclamation District, since 1988. Their territory is widespread throughout the Chicagoland area, as they patrol the various waterways, sewer systems, etc.

Sorry to jump in here Bruce, as I'm sure you can be more specific. I actually did work for the MWRD during the summer of 1990 as a security guard at the gate at the Stickney Plant - temp job - and then they also had the MWRD police that patrolled that were regular county employees.

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: Bruce (---.tmodns.net)
Date: October 11, 2010 03:12PM

The MSD police have full police powers just like any other municipality. They have been around since the beginning of canal construction. Any route they need to take to areas of their jurisdiction falls within the contiguous jurisdiction rule. That includes Archer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2010 03:38PM by Bruce.

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: 222psm (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: October 11, 2010 03:52PM

Bruce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The MSD police have full police powers just like
> any other municipality. They have been around
> since the beginning of canal construction. Any
> route they need to take to areas of their
> jurisdiction falls within the contiguous
> jurisdiction rule. That includes Archer.

Thanks bwalsh, and Bruce. the little bit I found was on a site where a guy claims they (MSD) pulled him over on the Kennedy for speeding. And wondering if he had to pay the ticket, since he was convinced they were out of their jurisdiction.

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: Bruce (---.tmodns.net)
Date: October 11, 2010 10:22PM

If the guy thinks that's the case then he needs to take the "go to court" option and state his concern to the judge. The judge will probably uphold the ticket, but this being Cook County, he may get a judge who doesn't know the law and toss it. I've seen it happen personally. However the MWRD police do have jurisdiction in any municipality contingent to their property. Furthermore any sworn certified police officer from Illinois has arrest power anywhere in the state - that is technically by statute.

As for traffic offenses, if I am from town A but need to drive on Archer let's say through town B and C to access land in my jurisdiction then I can enforce traffic laws along that route. This is not done often done though. Generally a traffic stop is made and an officer from the corresponding jurisdiction is called to write the ticket.

I'll stop so as to not throw this thread off topic anymore then it already is.

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: 222psm (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: October 11, 2010 11:08PM

Thanks for that explanation Bruce. Sorry I got off topic, back to the ghost stories!

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: Bruce (64.107.150.---)
Date: October 28, 2010 09:51PM

I asked my histrorian friend from Willow Springs about the "ghost house" and he had only to say that the cultists got to it whatever that means. Nothing else about who lived there. He did state that the property to the west on the N/E Corner of GCR and County Line Rd. was occupied until about 15 or so years ago. He stated that he was pretty sure the Llamas were on the property on the opposite corner (S/E) at County Line Road and GCR. He told me that the family that owned the N/E corner lot bred high end horses, as in big money breeds. He stated further, though not to be quoted directley as he may not have all the facts correct, that the daughter (probably the little girl I saw so many years ago) of the family who owened the N/E property was killed while she was in college and after that, the horse breeding and the property went to the way side.

Bruce

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: 222psm (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: November 01, 2010 10:41AM

Thanks for the update Bruce, I did find a few sites on line where they described the right house, but no pictures! It seem this place does not want it's past known!

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: Bruce (---.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 15, 2011 12:42PM

Bump

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: Richard Stachowski (---.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 16, 2011 01:14AM

Bruce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's Halloween time, and though I don't really get
> into the whole Chicago ghost hunter thing, I do
> have some interest since I am a local historian
> and researcher. I while back I came across a book
> on Chicago haunts by Ursula Bielski that mentioned
> a new discovery on Resurrection Mary. I've tried
> to contact her through E-mail, but have yet to get
> a response. In any case, I have a few ghost cases
> that I want to suck the wind out of. No - I don't
> really make it my practice to debunk stuff like
> this, but I would like to get this information out
> there to people like you all who care about local
> history, and perhaps set the record straight -
> well a bit anyway.
>
>
> Ursula wrote an article on the web stating in
> summation that Ressurection Mary is the ghost of
> 12-year-old Anna Norkus. The connection of Anna
> Norkus to Resurrection Mary was solidified through
> the rigorous research of Frank Andrejasich of
> Summit, Illinois. Frank had written Ursula a
> letter in 1997 that explained his version of Anna
> Norkus' fate, and eventually they met personally
> and Frank relayed his research that went into
> Ursula's Chicago Haunts book. . The following
> text is taken in part form the article written by
> Ursula Bielski on the www.ghostvillage.com web
> page.
>
> "In August of 1994, Andrejasich's brother had sent
> Frank a newspaper clipping telling the tale of
> Resurrection Mary, and, asking around at coffee
> after Mass one Sunday, Frank found that there were
> many local versions of the famous tale -- and many
> "candidates" for the role -- especially at his own
> St. Joseph parish, in the heart of Resurrection
> Mary country. Andrejasich was startled by the
> prevalence of the story in local memory -- and by
> the opinionated responses to his often-asked
> question: who was she? As it turned out, one of
> Frank's church buddies was a man named Jake Palus,
> who turned out to be the younger brother of the
> now-infamous Jerry Palus. Jerry is believed by
> many hard-core Mary researchers to have been the
> phantom's first encounter; till the day he died,
> Jerry claimed to have danced with her "all night"
> in 1936 at the old Liberty Grove and Hall ballroom
> on 47th street, in the storied Brighton Park
> neighborhood.
>
> After pondering the variety of accounts, combing
> early editions of the local papers, and checking
> with funeral directors and cemetery managers,
> Andrejasich came to believe that the ghost known
> as Resurrection Mary is the spiritual counterpart
> of the youngest of all the candidates: a
> 12-year-old girl named, surprisingly, Anna Norkus.
> Born in Cicero, Illinois in 1914, Norkus was
> given the name of Ona, Lithuanian for Anna. By
> the time she neared her teenage years, Anna had
> grown into a vivacious girl. Blonde and slim, she
> loved to dance, and it was her relentless begging
> that convinced her father, August, Sr., to take
> her to a dancehall for her 13th birthday. On the
> evening of July 20, 1927, father and daughter set
> out from their Chicago home at 5421 S. Neva for
> the famous O Henry Ballroom, accompanied by
> August's friend, William Weisner, and Weisner's
> date. On their drive home, at approximately 1:30
> a.m., the travelers passed Resurrection Cemetery
> via Archer Avenue, turning east on 71st Street and
> then north on Harlem to 67th Street. There, the
> car careened and dropped into an unseen,
> 25-foot-deep railroad cut. Anna was killed
> instantly.
>
> After the accident, her father, August Norkus was
> subject to devastating verbal abuse, even being
> told that Anna's death had been God's punishment
> for allowing the girl to go dancing at such a
> young age. In reality, the blame rested with the
> Chicago Streets Department, who had failed to post
> warning signs at the site of the cut. In fact,
> another death, that of Adam Levinsky, occurred at
> the same site the night after Anna's demise.
>
> Between July 28th and September 29th, an inquest
> was held at Sobiesk's mortuary in adjacent Argo.
> Heading up the five sessions was Deputy Coroner
> Dedrich, the case reviewed by six jurors. The
> DesPlaines Valley News carried the story of the
> inquest.
>
> Mary Nagode described to cousin Frank Andrejasich
> the sad procession that left the Norkus home on a
> certain Friday morning: First in line was Anna's
> older sister Sophie, followed by her older brother
> August, Jr. The pastor, altar boys, and a
> four-piece brass band preceded the casket, borne
> on a flatbed wagon with pallbearers on each side.
> Relatives and friends followed the grim parade for
> three blocks to the doors of St. Joseph's in
> Summit, where Anna had made her first communion
> only a year before.
>
> Anna was scheduled for burial in one of three
> newly-purchased family lots at St. Casimir
> Cemetery, and it is here where Andrejasich found
> the "if" that may have led to an infamous
> afterlife for Anna : as the world-famous
> Resurrection Mary, or as Anna called herself,
> Marija.
>
> Andrejasich discovered that, at the time of Anna's
> death, a man named Al Churas Jr., lived across the
> road from the gates of Resurrection Cemetery, in a
> large brick bungalow that was recently torn down
> as part of a subdivision development. Al's father
> was in charge of the gravediggers and was given
> the house to live in as part of his pay. In the
> mid-1920s, gravedigging was hard, manual labor,
> rewarded with low pay. Strikes were common. As
> Resurrection was one of the main Chicago
> cemeteries, the elder Churas was often sent to the
> cemeteries of striking gravediggers to secure the
> bodies of the unburied. Returning to Resurrection
> with a corpse in a wooden box, Churas' duty was to
> bury it temporarily until the strike ended and the
> body could be permanently interred in the proper
> lot. Because of poor coffin construction and the
> lack of refrigeration, a body could not be kept
> long, except in the ground. If the strike dragged
> on, identification at the time of relocation could
> be gruesomely difficult. Thus, reasons
> Andrejasich, if the workers at St. Casimir were
> striking on that July morning in 1927, it is quite
> possible that young Anna Norkus was silently
> whisked to a temporary interment at Resurrection,
> and that a rapid decomposition rendered her
> unidentifiable at the time of exhumation. The
> result? A mislaid corpse and a most restless
> eternity, if only one is willing to believe."
>
>
>
>
> Now there are a lot of issues with this story.
> First off, one would not drive north on Harlem
> from 71st in 1927, because it did not go through.
> And if it did, why would someone living on the
> 5400 block of Neva take 71st street home from
> Willow Springs anyway. Harlem avenue north of
> 63rd street and 63rd street east into Clearing was
> closed for sewer and water main work. This is
> what really happened as printed in the DesPlaines
> Valley News. I consolidated it a bit as it
> stretched over a few issues.
>
>
>
> July 21st 1927 – Car accident takes life of 13
> year old girl as car rolls over into old abandoned
> cut. A thirteen-year old girl was killed and five
> other members of an automobile party were injured,
> one perhaps fatally, last night, when in making a
> detour on Harlem avenue at 63rd street near the
> Community High School on their way to Clearing
> their machine ran into an old abandoned railroad
> cut and rolled over and over to the bottom. The
> dead girl is Anna Norkus, 5421 S. Neva, Archer
> Limits, who was crushed under the car and who was
> dead when taken out. Adam Levinski, 58 years old
> is at the Archer hospital with a badly fractured
> pelvis and with possible internal injuries. While
> the injury may prove fatal the physicians at the
> hospital say he has a good chance for recovery.
> August Norkus, father of the dead girl, incurred a
> broken colar bone which was set at the hospital.
> William Weisner and two girls Sophie Norkus, 16
> years old and Loretta Gwozdz, 14, suffered minor
> injuries. All were treated at the Archer
> Hospital, Weisner staying over night and the girls
> being sent home. August Norkus and his two
> daughters were on their way with the others in
> Weisner's car to give bond for a man who had been
> arrested in Clearing. They came from the limits
> via Archer avenue to 63rd street, which was closed
> for the laying of water mains and sewer, and at
> Harlem they attempted to detour by riding south to
> 65th street. Passing 65th street in the darkness
> they ran into the old abandond cut, and at its
> edge their machine struck the guy wire of a
> telegraph pole so that it turned over and plunged
> down top first. Having passed 65th street the
> prarie flattens out into a smooth plateau and a
> few hundred feet farther on comes a steep drop as
> from a table’s edge to an old abandinded
> railroad cut, 25 feet deep. Summit police and
> County Highway Police and a number of volunteers
> were attracted to the scene and rescued the
> injured persons from the wrecked car. The body of
> the girl victim was taken to the mortuary of
> George A. Sobiesk whose ambulance had been called.
> An inquest was set for this afternoon. Mr.
> Sobiesk also will have charge of the funeral.
>
> July 28th 1927 -Action was taken at the inquest
> held Thursday and Friday of last week at the
> Sobiesk mortuary in Argo to establish
> responsibility for the “death trap” at the
> 63rd and Harlem detour which on Wednesday night
> caused the immediate death of a young girl and the
> death on the following day of a man from Archer
> Limits. The girl victim was Anna Norkus and the
> man Adam Levinski, the latter passing away at
> Archer Hospital. Anna Norkus, a pupil of St.
> Joseph’s school, who had met with an
> instantaneous death at Harlem avenue and 66th
> street, when the automobile in which she was
> riding plunged into a deep pit, was buried from
> St. Joseph’s church Friday at 9 am. Burial took
> place at St. Casimir’s Lithuanian cemetery. The
> pastor, Rev Joseph A. Sehnke, celebrated the
> requiem high mass and preached the sermon in the
> church. The remains were escorted to the church
> and accompanied to the cemetery by the pastor and
> altar boys. May her soul rest in peace. The
> funeral was in charge of George Sobiesk.
>
>
>
> Poor Mr. Andrejasich - he got the wrong Mary
> here!
>
> Bruce

The house on 5421 neva is still standing and was built in 1919 or 1920. I think is was across from the Wenthworth house thet was across the street on the west side of Neva.

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: bowler (---.chipublib.org)
Date: October 18, 2011 04:21PM

Bruce,

Great stuff as usual!

But unfortunately Ghosts do not really exist, so this is all a moot point.:D

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: Bruce (64.107.150.---)
Date: October 18, 2011 09:09PM

Yes I agree. The problem is though is that some of these ghost hunters start spreading inaccurate information on some fo these sites that soon get written in local lore. I don't like that as you well know. In the other area of historical study I partake in, I and some others spend hundreds of hours trying to undo the damage created by novices. All it takes is one History Channel special featuring Moe, Curley and Larry and you have a myth started that is nearly impossible to correct.

In this instance we have books being written and ghost tours with bad information in them. Then we have the ghostbuster's trampling the wrong site on private property. Some of these authors are not at fault as they are just repeating information they gleaned from someone else whom they trusted as accurate. One of these guys is a new friend of mine that I just met - great guy! We should ask him to be a speaker at one of the Clear Ridge meetings.

A couple of instances of bad information causing damage to innocent people are the whole Spaitis' Grove/Capone debacle, and the old house on the hill in Willow Springs. That guy has had windows broken out every Halloween, and people trampling through his lawn. He used to have motion sensors hidden amongst the trees to catch people. I don't know if he still does. My thing is, if your going to chase spooks, go to the right place for goodness sakes.

I recall one Halloween where the Justice police spent the good part of the night catching drunks and ghostbusters out of Resurrection Cemetery. I mean these peole were climbing the fences, it was nuts! I recall questioning one of these people and asking them "what made you think that Mary came out on Halloween night and not any other night of the year?" No matter what variation of the legend one goes with, none of them took place on Halloween. Except ofcourse the imposter who did his hoax on Halloween nights. Maybe they were loooking for him.

Bruce

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Re: Ghost Stories
Posted by: ThenNowFuture (---.chi.clearwire-wmx.net)
Date: November 06, 2011 11:11AM

I did see blue lights and red lights a couple of times in Willow Springs. I used to belong to the Chalet there, and would work out late after work.

Unfortunately, when the lights got closer I was terrified to discover that they were not ghosts. Not unless these ghosts had badges and gave out tickets. ;---> The tickets sure didn't disappear until the fine was paid. LOL

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